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Setup Solution Thread by Russ Jones...
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Russjones42



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 620
Location: camp verde az.

PostPosted: Fri Feb 29, 2008 2:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gsilver wrote:
I recently got the Hyper 8.5 Pro kit.. a few things I am having issues with.

First.. the diff oils were changed to 5k Front, 5k Center, 2k Rear.

I am not sure what the stock settings are....but what ever they are, the rest has remains as such. One thing to note... the car comes 80% built, so maybe put that into account for us newbs.

I figured out one issue when jumping the nose would drop very fast. I changed the anti-squat screw to limit the front droop a LOT....but have no clue how to figure out ride height or mm for droop setting. Where and how is it measured?

Is there anyone that can possibly use photoshop and relabel the setup sheet to give "Real World" names of the parts you guys are setting?

My track is a semi prepared(morning) prepared (afternoon) then back to semi prepared (watered maybe to stop dust) orange clay track.

Turning in seems to be less responsive then turning out. I have gotten used to the car to where I pretty much controlled drift around the larger sweeping U turns and power hard going out of tighter turns. when it gets loose, i have very little turn-in or off power steering.

I also notice that my rear tires break loose often and cause me to lose control (spinout).

High speed steering is kind of what I expect. not really great, a little mussy feeling.

hope this gives enough info to help me out.


congrats on the purchase I am sure we will be able to get the car completely dialed in for you.

First lets work on the turn in, on a loose track the diff oil is too thick and since the tires are not grabbing very well they are sliding instead of spinning the diff, I would reccomend you drop down to 3k in the front diff. Think of a full size car sliding a spinning wheel creates traction and a loose wheel will just slide. Your outside front wheel needs to be free to spin much faster then the inside and generate traction.

As far as shock droop and pre load, I run 12mm of shock preload spacers in the front with the optional grey springs. The actual ride ht would be with half a tank a fuel and fully loaded to go, my front universals are level or slightly above. My shock location is the inside hole in the arm and the second from inside on the upper row on the tower. As far as droop goes in the front I run max. droop. I will unscrew the droop screws until I notice that droop screw is no longer holding the arm up but the shock end is. I then turn the screws so they bite the chassis and then give them a 1/2-3/4 turn so that there is a little extra to compensate for the indentations they will put into the chassis. Its very important to make sure that the droop screws limit travel and not the shock end, because if the shock ends do you will end up damaging the shock.

I would reccomend dialing in the front end and then working on the back end. But if the track is loose and you having trouble getting the rear end to stick then I would reccomend 1-2 of anti squat, that usually helps keep the rear end planted, you can also try a longer wheelase that helps keep the rear end from comingaround so fast, it will also increase steering by taking some weight bias off the rear, this is the setup i run and will also effect how many spring pre load collars are needed.

Remember that tires are the most important part of the setup, it would be best to see what tires are the most common at your track, all the handling problems may be easily corrected by switching tires.
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wmeracing



Joined: 25 Dec 2007
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 10:02 pm    Post subject: question? Reply with quote

what is the kick off? and how can I adjusted, thank's
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rabidsquirrel



Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 1098
Location: Tampa, FL (New Tampa)

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

READ THIS:

Very good info on suspension/handling theory - http://home.scarlet.be/~be067749/58/
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Backroomsam



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 6:28 am    Post subject: Re: question? Reply with quote

wmeracing wrote:
what is the kick off? and how can I adjusted, thank's


"Kick up" usualy refers to the angle of the front suspension arm hinge pins. They are adjusted by using the plastic inserts supplied I think theres 2 sets with the kit one has a '+' on one has a '-' on. You have a range of 5, 6, 7, and 8 degrees. Most people run the max of 8 degrees by using the on einserts with the '-' sign on with the '-' sign to the top

hope that helps
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gsilver



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 6:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you for the response...I havent been able to replace the fluids yet...but i have replaced tires. for ride height... i had to put the rear shocks as high and out as they can go to get the dogbones to sit level.

I also changed the caster blocks to 20deg...not sure that really did anything.

I am noticing though.... the front tires ballon up still while on the streights. How do i take away front power and what effects will it have?
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Backroomsam



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

gsilver wrote:
thank you for the response...I havent been able to replace the fluids yet...but i have replaced tires. for ride height... i had to put the rear shocks as high and out as they can go to get the dogbones to sit level.

I also changed the caster blocks to 20deg...not sure that really did anything.

I am noticing though.... the front tires ballon up still while on the streights. How do i take away front power and what effects will it have?


You should use preload on the springs (extra spacers) to adjust the ride height not the shock position on the tower amigo, that will have different effects.

If the front tires are ballooning then the centre diff oil needs to be thicker this will keep more power to the rear when the front spin.
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Russjones42



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 620
Location: camp verde az.

PostPosted: Wed Mar 12, 2008 7:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Backroomsam wrote:
gsilver wrote:
thank you for the response...I havent been able to replace the fluids yet...but i have replaced tires. for ride height... i had to put the rear shocks as high and out as they can go to get the dogbones to sit level.

I also changed the caster blocks to 20deg...not sure that really did anything.

I am noticing though.... the front tires ballon up still while on the streights. How do i take away front power and what effects will it have?


You should use preload on the springs (extra spacers) to adjust the ride height not the shock position on the tower amigo, that will have different effects.

If the front tires are ballooning then the centre diff oil needs to be thicker this will keep more power to the rear when the front spin.


+1
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gsilver



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

understood.
questions though....


Im running the spider diff. most people are saying lower weights for the spider are equal to higher for the standard. I am running 5k in it now.

Would it matter that I have a LRP .28 in it (too much power) that would need even higher weight?

about the preloaders... I have them off. That is why i had to move the position on the shock tower to get the ride height correct. Is there something I am doing wrong that would cause the shocks to do this? the springs too long?
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Backroomsam



Joined: 12 Oct 2007
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Thu Mar 13, 2008 12:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gsilver wrote:
understood.
questions though....


Im running the spider diff. most people are saying lower weights for the spider are equal to higher for the standard. I am running 5k in it now.

Would it matter that I have a LRP .28 in it (too much power) that would need even higher weight?

about the preloaders... I have them off. That is why i had to move the position on the shock tower to get the ride height correct. Is there something I am doing wrong that would cause the shocks to do this? the springs too long?


Maybe try 8k in the centre gsilver and see how much it calms the balloon effect on the front. I tried 10k in the centre on mine (spider also) and the drive was immense but I was much less consistant, I made more mistakes. I run 7k now in the centre used to run 5k and 7k is a good balance for me.

Weird on the shocks if your using the kit shocks you should be able to sort it. Make sure your using the top row of mounting holes on the tower second to inside hole is a good starting point front and rear and outside hole on the lower arm. You should need some amount of spacers then at the top of the spring to bump up the ride height to get the drive shafts level

hope that helps
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gsilver



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

took everything off and even match the shocks using a special tool (cant remember brand/name). put on the top row..second hole out and farthest out (2nd) on the bottom. without and preloaders on the shocks..front and back... the ride height is still too high.

bad springs?

could any of this be caused from anti-squat or kickup settings?
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rabidsquirrel



Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 1098
Location: Tampa, FL (New Tampa)

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It may help to post up some pictures of it. That may help us spot any issues with them...

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2Stroke AL



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 93
Location: Gold Coast Australia

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 3:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are the front springs shorter than the rears? I got two sets of front springs and no rear springs with my 8.5! I cant complain though, they also supplied enough screws and ball ends to build two buggies with some left over I think my buggie was packaged on a friday arvo lol
When new I ran no spacers in the rear and it ran slightly above bones level, and 10mm front spacers to match the rear. The front springs had free play in the fully extended shock making spacers an absolute must leading me to believe you have two pair of rear springs!
Now that the springs have settled the rear is bones level-no spacers and front is bones level-12mm spacers.
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gsilver



Joined: 28 Feb 2008
Posts: 7

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will try to take a picture tonight. but I am sure that the springs are correct. short in front..long in back.
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Russjones42



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 620
Location: camp verde az.

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It definately sounds like something is wrong, but you should run the car and let the springs settle a little. Pictures would be a big help.
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Aron1



Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Russ!

We are going again to an indoor race. This competition will be
basicly on sand. (80% sand 20% slippery artifical grass.)

Here is the track. http://ww1.arcslavkov.cz/video/astra_track.wmv
http://www.arcslavkov.cz/novinky/astra-nitro-cross-2008-trat-track/

Could you give some setup advice? :)

Does somebody know, what size of holes on the white piston in
the old H8 shocks?

Thanks!

Aron
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