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Hyper 9 Setup discussion.
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Ole C



Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 110
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:04 am    Post subject: Hyper 9 Setup discussion. Reply with quote

I couldn't find a general setup discussion thread here, so here it goes

On another thread I asked a question about adjusting sway bars/ anti roll bars. Here it is:

Quote:
Casketman wrote:
The set screws (or pinch studs..different terms for different areas lol) that are on the diff housing. There are two of them that hold the swaybars.

You can tighten and loosen them which effect the movement of those swaybars. Doing that changes the handling of the car. The Hudy setup guide doesnt talk about doing this and what effects it has. It just talks about using a thicker and thinner wire.

I dont know all the fine details. But in the past,I have always adjusted one end(front or back) at a time in order to calm down the car. I just try to stay away from over tightening the screws or leaving them so loose that the swaybar can pop out.



Quote:
Quote:
YZFAndy: To me that reads as the pinch studs. That would just make the suspension bind



Thats what I thought too. Shouldnt the sway bars always rotate freely?
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Ole C



Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 110
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And heres another thing I have been wondering about:

When looking at different setups (regardless of brand) it seems that "base" setups use quite thin oils in the diffs (especially rear diff) in American setups. Whilst European setups use heavier oils. I thought it was a result of "European style" tracks are said to be flat and smooth.

But I just read the Xray 808 2009 edition review in Racer Magazine from England, and in there it saya the starting setup recommended was 5-7-2. They suspected it was for US style tracks and talked to Hazelwoods mechanic about it. The setup he used for a certain rough track in UK was 5-5-5.

I understand the 5 in front, and going down from 7 to 5 in the center on a rough trackl.
But going up from 2 to 5 in the rear on a rough track? Can someone please shed some light on that??
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={Rick}=



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 66
Location: Australia

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thought i'll post this here aswell, for the same reasons as above.

Casketman wrote:
I still run the stock upper and lower front arms. Pretty much my whole car is still stock other then the 17mm shocks.


What colour springs are your running? Also what weight oil have to found to be the best? oh and 1 other thing have u drilled out your pistons and if so what have you done?

Cheers Rick

Casketman wrote:
Rick, I have yet to drill out the pistons although I have extras so that is still an option. Right now I have gray/white for the springs and 35/32.5 for oil. The car felt good
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YZFAndy



Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont know about the rest of Europe but here in the uk tracks are quite often damp, hence more grip and thicker oils used.
We also run a lot more on patchy grass and astroturf.

J. Hazelwoods setup you're talking about(Clanfield cml website) that day in particular was very damp and very grippy, also then the track had just had a lot of work done to it and was quite smooth.

I was watching the car that day and i don't believe the car was running 5 on the back. I tried that set-up the following time i went there and the car might has well been two wheel drive. I know a lot of its the driver but the car was just undrivable.
Ole C wrote:


Quote:
Quote:
YZFAndy: To me that reads as the pinch studs. That would just make the suspension bind


Thats what I thought too. Shouldnt the sway bars always rotate freely?

Yes that will defiantly cause it to bind and not work as well. Its probably acting a bit like the roll bar is stiffer but the way to do that would be to bring the link rods in further, wouldn't it!
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Ole C



Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 110
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 5:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that explains a bit...

I have only tried the 9 for one practice session and one race, but I really like how it handles.

In the practice I had 5-5-5 and it seemed quite easy to handle actually. For the sake of testing, I tried 15-15-5 in the race. And it was a lot more difficult to handle (as expected), but I wanted to see how it would affect the car.
Very quick in some sections early in the day, but as the track got more bumpy and has less traction during the day, it was too much to handle

So, I'm done testing the extremes and want something easy to drive. I have concidered going back to 5-5-5, but I'm not to sure it will be stable enough when the track is worn.

I was thinking 5-7-2. What do you think? Our tracks are pretty much clay/dirt with dust ontop when it dries up during the day. And the tracks are almost always quite bumpy.
Will the 7 in the middle be too much on a bumpy track, or is that mostly just determined by how smooth the throttle action is?
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Ole C



Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 110
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YZFAndy wrote:
Yes that will defiantly cause it to bind and not work as well. Its probably acting a bit like the roll bar is stiffer but the way to do that would be to bring the link rods in further, wouldn't it!


My thoughts exactly!
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YZFAndy



Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ole C wrote:

I was thinking 5-7-2. What do you think?


I think running X-7-2 is going to be very similar as X-5-5 for lots of grip tracks.

I ran 5-7-2 with hobao angle spikes and the setup on the chassis thread,on grass and it worked very well. I was 3 laps clear of my nearest two weeks running at my local track.
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Casketman



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 495
Location: Braidwood,IL,USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 11:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for moving that part about the shocks over here Rick and for starting this thread Ole.

Yes,the sway bars should still remain free to a point. You dont want to turn those set screws down to far or else the sway bar wont move at all when the car is on the track.

I'm not going to pretend to be a master at adjusting the sway bars but I have noticed a change in how the car reacts when I make adjustments. I have not thought about writing all of this down so I cant say what adjustment will do what to the car just yet.

I do remember the last time I made a adjustment. The rear end was loose in the corner so I turned the set screws in half a turn and it tightened the car up for me.

I also know that the rear bars are tighter then in the front right now on my car. In the rear,if you try to move the bar side to side with your fingers,you cant but it will move when the car is in action.
The front you can move but it is snug so the movement by finger is limited.

As for any setup. Personal testing is needed for everyone. What works for driver A might not work for Driver B. Case in point, 'Yall' made some changes to my car and I spent the next two races chasing the setup to get back the handling I had before.

As for diff oils. I currently run 7/4/2. I have found the normal 5/7/3 or something close to that layout with the higher oil in the center just doesnt work for me at all. I sometimes use 1k in the rear but that burns off quick so I check the rear diff after everyday of racing and refill if needed.
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Ole C



Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 110
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When tightening the set screws on the swaybar to the point where they dont move freely anymore, I would think they act as a second spring (more powerfull effect than normal if you will). Which leads me to think that you may need a stiffer spring on the rear shocks.

At least thats what I would think when regarding touring car setup (which I have more experience with). The rear end rolls too much relative to the front end when cornering, causing the rear end to loose traction, or even roll the car over.

Something that troubles me, is that we more often than not end up with a harder setup in the rear than in the front. About 100 cps higher on the oils (using the same pistons F/R) and sometimes even harder springs rear compared to the front.
And this surely contradicts all setup guides I've seen... AND it bugs the hell out of me
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Casketman



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 495
Location: Braidwood,IL,USA

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 1:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its a whole different world lol


Like I said,some things work for one guy while they dont come close for others. I still make small adjustments to my setup. Always trying to find something that will help shave some time off.
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Ole C



Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 110
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 3:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

YZFAndy wrote:
Ole C wrote:

I was thinking 5-7-2. What do you think?


I think running X-7-2 is going to be very similar as X-5-5 for lots of grip tracks.

I ran 5-7-2 with hobao angle spikes and the setup on the chassis thread,on grass and it worked very well. I was 3 laps clear of my nearest two weeks running at my local track.


So what do you think about a very bumpy medium grip track then? 3-3-1?

I'm afraid I'll lose too much forward traction when going too low in the center diff...

I've seen Pro's going through the rough sections like it was flat like a floor. How on earth do they manage that? Of course it all depends on a good damper setup also, but I think I have somewhat more controll on that
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YZFAndy



Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't normally adjust my diff's regarding bumpy or smooth conditions. I normally adjust diffs for turning in and corner exit characteristics. The only time i might adjust them other than this is if I'm too thick on a bumpy track and being kicked of line all the time.

Bumpy bit i leave to the suspension. I know what you mean about the pro's through bumpy sections, everyone struggles with them, then the A finals come along and just skip alone the top of them.
I find sometimes too thin in the shock will give you less grip and make the ride bumpier. For example if you hit a sharp bump hard, the suspension can continue to move up even though the bump has past just by momentum its carrying. It will eventually unload, spring back down and hit the next bump or even flat track at speed unsettling the car.
Also don't forget you have tyres with inserts you can control which are half of your suspension.
If the back is kicking about and jumping distance isn't an issue i might adjust the anti squat as well, reduce it.
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Ole C



Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 110
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 4:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

But what i find strange with the corner entry/exit vs diff oils is that to me it feels like I get more/better turn in with heavier diff oil in the front diff (not compared to the other diffs, just in general).
It was definately like that with the H8, where I ended up with 10-10-3.

And I thought the H9 is a completely different car, so it should act more according to the setup guides says (heavier oil = less turn in). But I kind of get the same feeling there too...

I know it's backwards, but why is that what my experience is then?

We are usually four guys driving the 9 here, who also drove the 8/8,5 in the past. three of us think we get more turn in with heavier oil in the front, but not the fourth guy. He thinks we're nuts, and he may be right, but why?
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YZFAndy



Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 80

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is your servo saver spring tensioner wound all the way up as far as it'll go? If not do it then things should start making sense.

Your probably finding the back is rotating round rather than the front is turning in better.
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Ole C



Joined: 03 Oct 2007
Posts: 110
Location: Norway

PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2009 6:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sh#%&...

I knew I had forgotten something...

Thanks
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