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Picco max 26 red dot - break-in issues
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nitro_79



Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 18
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:45 pm    Post subject: Picco max 26 red dot - break-in issues Reply with quote

Hello just got a new 26 max red dot for my Revo. I've been breaking it in and have yet to get any power, very tight engine. I went right off the manf settings of 5-5 1/2 turns HSN plus one turn for break in. and 2 turns out from the ball on LSN. Ran two tanks through it keeping eye on temp, started up great and ran fine lots of smoke a little bit of raw fuel in exhaust, all looked great. Now here I am 1/2 gal of fuel later I'm at the 5 1/2 turns and it runs really rich, I'm getting temps in the 210-240 range and trying not to get any higher, but cannot get anymore then 1/4 throttle or it loads up with fuel and chokes it out. Engine is still tight at the top. even when hot. Any ideas? or do I just need to keep running some fuel through it. Just got over a very dissapointing time with my Sirro monster 23 and I do not want to junk this motor. Thanks
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VWVR6_T



Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Western, PA

PostPosted: Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like is start to get loose, lean the HSN 1 hr at at time till you see run better but dont lean too much still new the engine, enuff to get you running. How is the LSN, try the pinch test, let the engine get in temps. then pinch the fuel line, the engine should stay running for about 4 to 5 sec. once you get that don touch it any more till the HSN is set to your liking. You can used this as a guide also http://www.ofna.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5 GL.
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nitro_79



Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 18
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so against my better judgement I started to slowly lean the engine and keep running it until it started to come into tune. This is exactly what I did with my last engine, and here I am at 3 1/4 turns on the HSN and its just starting to open up, I still need to lean it some more. Now when the Manufacture says 5 to 5 1/2 turns and I'm at 3 1/4 I feel like I'm going to burn this thing up. Should I keep going until it runs good and just see what happens. I had the same problem with my last engine and nobody could believe that I was running it at 3 turns on the HSN when everybody else was at 5-6 turns. Please help thanks O also I'm having a hard time with the LSN i think its close but when I pinch off the fuel I get maybe 2 seconds and it dies, and it doesn't rev up it just dies, I tried to richen it a little but same result, I tried to lean it and same result, so I'm just going to leave it at the 2 turns that the manual says.
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VWVR6_T



Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Western, PA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2010 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The needles came from factory very open ready for brake in. Once the engine is ready then you start to lean till you liking. Now, the bearing leaking is a problem to get a good tune, back plate suking air, carb suking air is also a problem to find a good reliable tune. Get the front bearing replace if you can get the inside or rear bearing replace for a ceramic one (if you have the $$ of course). Once you have this front bearing fix and the back plate and carb seal, you should good to go, and start tune the engine. No every engine work with the same setting even same brand and model dont used the same tune so dont look to your buddies how is their tune because is not going to work the same. Keep tuning the engine untill you like how runs then take the temp of the engine make sure is some where in the 210 - 240 deg. range. Or if you dont have a temp. gun make sure you always have a stream of smoke and spit on top of the glow plug should evaporate in @ 2-3 sec.( Is been a while that I dont used this method, because I use a gun but it is a lot of info in the web) Going back to the temps., With this temps. you should have a beast. The LSN keep open it up till you get 4 to 5 sec. running after you pinch the fuel line, if the engine does not react to the changes check the slide you should have some where around 2 - 2.5 mm open. The LSN should react to your changes. Once you have the LSN set run the car and look how react and runs. Always,always ALWAYS, runs the car for a few laps after each change you made to the needles. Also some carbs reacts to a little touch of the needles somes not, you will feel it right away once you touch the needles. Hope this helps you. Report back, I want to know how this engine works. Keep the , show him you are the BOSS.

ps: LSN not tune, is not going to help to keep the engine in tune and correct temps.
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nitro_79



Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 18
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 3:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, thanks for your help. Yes the needles come set from the factory but I always check them and they were close to what they said. They say 5 1/2 turn HSN and 2 turns out from ball on LSN. then turn the HSN out one more turn for break in. Run two tanks through it getting in the 220s range in temp but not over 250. then start to turn the HSN 1hr at a time back to the 5 1/2 turns. It started and ran fine at the 6 1/2 just could not open up throttle very far. the last engine I had, had air leaks and I could not get it to run at that many turns and then it was real spuratic and would rev up and down like getting lean. this one doesn't do that. not until the temps get too high. I'm going to mess with the LSN a little and see if I can get it set right. I had put bocca bearings in my last engine and it is now a very expensive paper weight. I dont need any more paper weights lol. again thank you for your help I will keep you posted. But as of right now I'm at 3 1/4 turns HSN and around 1mm out on the LSN (2 turns from the ball) I agree this thing should be a monster.
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triplebvalp



Joined: 11 Mar 2006
Posts: 333
Location: Valparaiso, FL

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey nitro_79,

Don't worry about where your needles are and what the temp is. Tune for smoke and power. Make sure you have a nice trail of smoke throughout the power band. If you have an air leak, tuning will be impossible at best.

Seal the carb, carb pinch bolt, and back plate. Make sure your exhaust gaskets are good, replace all fuel lines, and ensure your fuel tank is not leaking. You might even play around with different temp range glow plugs.
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nitro_79



Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 18
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

is it too much to ask to buy an engine, install it, break it in, and run it. I've run another 3 or 4 tanks of fuel in this thing today just trying to find some power, and not caring if it blows up or not. I'm down to 3 turns on the HSN more then 3 and it starts to bog down the engine it will run but no power. at 3 turns it runs but still stays in first gear, and wont pull the wheels off the ground. I already feel that I have killed this motor and I did everything that I was suppose to. And I think its a bunch of crap that I have to take my brand new engine and replace the bearings and seal the thing up just to get it to run. As of right now I have two expensive italian made paper weights and am very displeased. I'm actualy concidering buying the traxxas 3.3 engine that came in this truck and running it at least it worked. Both these engines should have been extremely powerful and made this revo run great, my Sirio monster 23 and my picco 26 red dot. I guess I will take the engine apart clean it up replace the bearings and seal it up and start over. I have not been able to run my truck in over a year. nothing but a headache I'm about to get rid of it and stick to my boats.
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VWVR6_T



Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Western, PA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry to hear that , but Pro drivers seal engines club racer seal engine that is nothing wierd about it, I do it also. Just replace the front bearing and start all over again, it will be a different engine, is a good engine with a lot of power. One more thing check the adjustment of the transmision, it shoul change gear in lower rpm's, is not hte engine fault, that tranny need adjustment.
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nitro_79



Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 18
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok so I pulled engine apart, found that the carb was tight hard to get out, I'll seal it anyway, found the back plate dry and clean not leaking, I'll seal it also. I do seem to get a lot of fuel/oil in the pull start, and then I noticed that they machine a hole to lub the shaft that the one way bearing grabs, and i understand why but holy cow I pulled my pull start off and i had a gal of fuel in it. (normal?) plus it makes it hard to start, the bearing keeps slipping. anyway, the rest of the motor looks great very clean no scoring on piston or sleeve, still very tight at the top. I'm going to try and seal it first and run it see if I get any change, then if not I will pull apart and mic the bearings to order some boca bearings. I cannot find the size of these bearings anywhere. but then I remember when I ordered boca bearings for my sirrio and one came in the wrong size and had to measure anyway, I'm glad that I am not the only one induring all this pain lol. Oooo also the engine had .5mm in shims is this correct? two .2s and a .1 just thought I would check, seems like a bit much for 20% but maybe the clearance on this engine is different. Also there was a lot of oily fuel all over engine and around the carb like it was running really rich and dumping fuel, plus I was going through a tank of fuel like i go through good vodka again thanks for the help and I will keep posting my progress, I cannot wait to see this thing run. If I can find another piston/sleeve for my sirrio I may even give that engine another chance.
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nitro_79



Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 18
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

forgot do you just use the copper rtv to seal, I've heard good and bad. one it works great and is high temp and doesn't break down because of the fuel. but bad because it tends to eat away at the aluminum parts. Just thought I would ask. Thanks
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VWVR6_T



Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Western, PA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nope, I used Hi-Temp silicone oil resistant. That's just fine.
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VWVR6_T



Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Western, PA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 1:52 pm    Post subject: Engine seal Vid. by R/C Car Mag. Reply with quote

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PopyUFy6j34
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nitro_79



Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 18
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 2:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ok sealed everything up, no change, so I kept running it and tuning until it had some power, I'm at 2 1/2 turns HSN and 2 turns LSN I still have smoke and temps are in the 230-250 range, but I still dont think that it is running the way it was supose to. I mean if it is supose to be a wheelie popping engine, its not doing it, sound good but just doesnt snap like it should more of a slow exceleration. Well unless any other ideas I guess I'll tear it down and drop some ceramics in it, and set the needles back to where I started when it was new and see what happens. I will say that it does idle well and is not spuratic like it has an air leak, and has smoke. I just dont understand how I'm down to 2 turns when I should be around 5 ? I could understand maybe one turn difference.
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VWVR6_T



Joined: 23 Aug 2009
Posts: 384
Location: Western, PA

PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2010 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Hyper 8P non race Im running the HSN at around 2 turns, after a full tank of gas in the track all that I have is 230deg. I can lean more? yes and I will. One thing that help to pop a wheely is the clutch, with higher spring press. may help, the clutch will react at higher revolutions mean more power of the line. The pipe make a BIG difference in the performance of a engine, the correct pipe will make a huge difference in performance. Fuel with higher % of nitro will help also. You still have some homework to get the max out of this mill. I have no doubt that will performe like you want but he need the right pipe,fuel and tune. I know you know that.
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nitro_79



Joined: 24 Mar 2010
Posts: 18
Location: Indianapolis, Indiana

PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2010 4:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll keep trying, I'va got a gal of 30% for another vehicle, Just not sure if this engine is shimmed enough, I'll try a tank and see if it makes any difference, I'm just really trying to keep an eye on temps, I'm seeing 240s just from running up and down my driveway. I'll adj my trans a little and maybe find an open parking lot to make some more runs. I'v got a new three finger clutch, Just thought with this kind of power it should pull this revo up and make it flighty with out any effort. So still thinking that it may be lean and getting some air. If I cant get any changes in the next 1/2 gal of running I'll change the bearings. If I could only find my toaster oven Its been a bad week, going to have to rebuild my Zen motor also, I guess I'll just tear everything down and start fresh for the summer. Oh thats the other thing, I'm getting those temps and its only been about 50deg outside here, so I'm really concerned that the higher temps of summer are going to make this thing hot, I'll try the 30% and get a med plug for it, I think I might have some laying around. I did find where all the fuel was coming from, it dumping out of my exhaust port. I have the resonator pipe on here that was on my 3.3 seems like a good pipe, I guess I could look into something new.
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