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Setup Solution Thread by Russ Jones...
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Russjones42



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 620
Location: camp verde az.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 4:12 pm    Post subject: Setup Solution Thread by Russ Jones... Reply with quote

I thought I would start this thread for people who are trying to get there car setup. So if you have any questions about your setup please post here and we can try to find a solution to make the car work the way you want it to.

It would be best to post your current setup here when you ask your question so its easier to come to a solution.
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GuNNeR



Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 411
Location: Bundaberg, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great idea, i thought of reviving the ultimate setup thread a while back but never got round to it. The problem ive been having is on low to medium traction surfaces i cant jump on the power at the exit of low speed tight corners without the back end sliding around / taily and i cant seem to put power down and clear the jumps that have not alot of run up, the car is amazing on high traction surfaces and i dont have this problem. This is the only area where my main competitiors have the advantage over me, i really struggle and fight with the car in this area. I also would like a tad more off power steering without changing the way the car handles in other areas, i fix one problem and something else arises (the ol equal and opposite reaction) The car tends to push too in the middle of low speed tight corners if i jump on the power to soon.

What do you suggest? Lay down the rear shocks some more? and try the 20 degree castor blocks to increase the off power steering? Any other things i can try?

My Full setup
http://s127.photobucket.com/albums/p144/Hyper8Pro/Hyper8%20Setups/?action=view&current=ADunHyper8Setup.jpg

Ive tried pretty much every combo diff setup goin around and the 7/5/1 feels the best to me so far and the tyre wear is alot more uniform than it was with 5/5/1, 5/5/2, 3/3/1, 3/3/2 setups, but its still not 100% uniform, im still pwing the fronts alot more than the rears.

I run heavier shock oils and front springs on high traction smooth tracks than that is on the car now.
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Russjones42



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 620
Location: camp verde az.

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 9:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First try a softer compound tire like M2 or M3

For the rear go up in anti squat and try both 2* and 3* first. That will give you more forward traction and will also give you more pop off the jumps. That will also allow the car to rotate better thru the off power turns by binding the supension slightly. That change maybe the only thing you need to make so try that first. Next i would say try 2.5-3 toe in, that will also help with forward traction. Make these changes to the rear end first cause I think you may be able to solve both problems in the rear. I would then take the rear shock oil down to 35wt.-37.5wt. to help make up for the added anti squat. At this point your rear end should be planted but if your front is still not working then make the changes in the next paragraph.

Ok on the front end, Lay the front shocks down 1 hole, or go to a softer front spring (you may end up doing both). Either change the caster block to 20* or change the diff oil to 5k. Also go to the 8* front kick up, that will allow more front dive under braking which will help weight the front off power. If the track is low speed and you really can't get enough turn in go to the inside camber link at the front hub.

Remember to try and make only one change at a time, it may take you a couple weekends to go thru everything posted but it will pay off in the end.
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GuNNeR



Joined: 14 Dec 2006
Posts: 411
Location: Bundaberg, Australia

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thx russ, great post I did try 2 degree anti squat just a couple days ago and it didnt help, i didnt how ever lighten the rear oil, so I'll try that next with the added antisquat. I did have the rear toe setting at 1.5 then i changed it to 2 and i did help a tad but it also decreased off power steering, but i left it and just altered the way i drove slightly. Would going to a medium spring all round also be something to try?
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motomanpat7



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am telling ya my newest setup is dialed on those slippery corner exits and I just love it now.At the Mapston race I just went to,pretty much every tire worked pretty good but my car was just plain awsome around the corners and I could turn under everybody I raced with.A few guys came up to me after I ran and were very curious what tires I was running but I must say it was not just the tires.It was the tires and the setup and now I am in dreamland.

Last edited by motomanpat7 on Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
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motomanpat7



Joined: 06 Aug 2006
Posts: 137

PostPosted: Tue Oct 30, 2007 10:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I will post my setup again just in case nobody can find it!

Here is the new and improved set-up

Car HYPER 8
Standard Chassis with the new center diff brace
Currently Jammin Big Bores all around
Kyosho 20 deg hub carriers(because they are stronger)
Novarossi Hot Mod P5
Mugen Carbon black shoes
1.1 springs
M3 BOWTIES (First time using M3s and dang they work)
Stock gearing

Front Setup

5000w diff fluid
7 deg kick-up
Jammin dark blue springs from my CRT
37.5W fluid
3rd hole from inside on tower
Inside hole on arm
1 deg negative camber
CVDs level or slightly above
No droop screws
No sway bar



Middle Setup

4000w diff fluid
Brakes who cares(whatever feels right for you)


Rear Setup

2000w diff fluid
3 deg Anti-squat
2.0 Rear Toe -in
Track width 309mm
Jammin red spings
32.5w fluid
2nd hole from outside on tower
Outside hole on arm
Optional camber links(Both curved ones)
2nd hole from top on camber link
Outside top on upright
1 deg negative camber
Arms slightly above level
Always run a sway bar on the rear!!!!!!!
Some droop but don`t have a gauge


This setup for me felt the best the car has ever felt.M3 bowties worked extremely well along with the lighter diff fluid and the lighter shock oil.Try it guys you will like it!
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rabidsquirrel



Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 1098
Location: Tampa, FL (New Tampa)

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 5:16 am    Post subject: Working On My Setup Reply with quote

Here is what will probably end up being my baseline set-up

car: HYPER 8 (Practically an 8.5)
engines: Novarossi P5X (8~10 Gallons)
plug: NR C7 plug
clutch: OFNA Black Shoes w/ Standard springs - gearing: stock
pipe: JP-3 w/ 13T Clutch Bell (OFNA Compact Vented)
chassis: FR2 with the new center diff brace
shocks: 16mm Jammin Biggest Bores (1.4 Pistons)
tires: Panther KIIs Med/Soft
gas: 30%
Hop-ups: Rear 1.5 degree CNC Uprights

Stand-by Engine (Next Race Engine): a not yet broken in Hot Mods Novarossi PLUS 21-5K (NR C6 Plug, less than 1/2 gallon)


Front Setup

7000w diff fluid
20 deg kick-up
16mm Jammin' White Springs
35W Losi fluid
H8 Stock sway bar
3rd hole from inside on tower
Bottom hole on Upper Arm
1 deg negative camber
CVDs level or slightly above
~1mm droop screws
Rear Hole on Ackermann


Middle Setup

5000w diff fluid
Metal Discs Brakes Sintered Pads (H8 Stock) - 45%FR / 55%Rear Bias (Approx)


Rear Setup

2000w diff fluid
? deg Anti-squat
3 Rear Toe -in
Track width ???mm
Jammin 16mm White springs
30W Losi fluid
3rd hole from outside on tower
Inside hole on Lower Arm
Standard camber links (One end Straight, other Curved)
3rd hole from top on camber link
Top/Outer Hole on 1.5 Degree CNC upright (Hinge Pin in top hole of upright)
2 deg negative camber
Arms slightly level
Stock H8 Sway Bar
1.5~2mm Droop (Screws in - Arms don't go to far below 'level')

Wing at the 'highest' angle of attack, screw in 'bottom' hole.

I'm still re-building my car, so I've not yet 'decided' on some settings. I will fill them in later, when I've completed my overhaul...

FWI ~ Here's a link to an older thread regarding setups for Hyper 8's with feedback from Russ and Others:
"ASK A WORKING CLASS PRO"


Last edited by rabidsquirrel on Wed Nov 07, 2007 7:53 am; edited 3 times in total
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Russjones42



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 620
Location: camp verde az.

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 7:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gunner those changes should take away your off power steering, but you should be able to get it back by making some changes to the front end. I would also go to 2k rear diff oil, if the track is loose you may be diffing to the rear inside tire and when the weight transfers back down it can grab inconsistantly.

You could also give motomanpats setup a try he said that it has worked wonders for him.
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Demento



Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 213
Location: Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Wed Oct 31, 2007 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AWESOME thread Russ! Your help is valued.

Here is my setup as of last night. Ran it today, I need some stiffer springs for the 16mm BB (only have soft!!!), besides that...the back is kicking out very easily. The front seems quite planted, but she a little out of wack in the rear. What suggestions would you have? Cheers.

I have a very loose track with basically NO GRIP!

HYPER 8.5
Jammin Super Big Bores with white springs

Front Setup

7000w diff fluid
55W (white 16mm spring)
8 deg kick-up
3rd hole from outside on tower
Inside hole on arm
-1 deg camber
+1 deg toe out
22 deg hub
Stock sway bar

Middle Setup
5000w diff fluid


Rear Setup

1000w diff fluid
50w (white 16mm spring)
3 deg Anti-squat
-3 deg Rear Toe in
-2 deg camber
3nd hole from outside on tower
Inside hole on arm
Outside top on upright
Stock Sway bar

Low traction track. Can't get any grip, so it powers on all over the place. Been using knuckles 2.0 because anything with a pin is next to usless. Any suggestions? 2,000 weight in rear maybe?

Cheers!
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Russjones42



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 620
Location: camp verde az.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would go to 2k rear diff oil and 2* degress antisquat. You might be able to get the rear end to stick with camber links, what camber link are you running at the tower.

You may also want to try going to the outside hole on the arm with the shock.
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Demento



Joined: 23 Nov 2006
Posts: 213
Location: Victoria, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Russ! Your a champ! I will try those things today.
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Aron1



Joined: 09 Oct 2007
Posts: 61

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Russ!

Have you tried the BBF diffs in the Hyper 8?
What is the main difference between the Spider and BBF?
If I would like to use, shall I use them everywhere, or the front and
center is enough? Can I use without any mod in the 8 Pro?

And an another question: My 8 Pro is understeerd existing the corner.
I noticed the front diffs are too soft, probably the diff leaked the
oil. Can be this my problem?

(My setup(was): F3000; C7000; R5000; R Anti Squat 3*; F Toe-out: 3*
R Toe-in: 2,5; Caster 18*.)

Thanks!

Aron
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Felipe



Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 470
Location: Winter Haven FL

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Car-Hyper 8.5
Engines-RBC5BB,S7
Fuel 20%
Tires-JConcept croos hairs SS w/JC wheels (HA HA HA)not available yet
Driver-Felipe

Front
5000 diff fluid
2.3mm sway bar
8deg kick up
-1deg camber
+1deg toe out
14mm shock w/gray spring
mod piston 2 holes w/#54 and 2 w/#56
40wt oil
shock inside hole on tower
inside hole on arm
middle hole on ackerman
22deg castor block
alu cnc sway bar ball ends
alu cnc shock stant off
droop just the same as the shock length
arm above level

Center
4000 diff fluid w/spider diff
racer edge brake rotors (fiber glass)
55~30 bias
alu cnc brake cam
13t clutch bell
stock spur
sts alu clutch w/1.0 sprins

Rear
2000 diff fluid
2deg anti squad
-1 camber
3deg toe in
2.6mm sway bar
middle wheel base
camber link 1 hole down on tower
shock 14mm w/gray sprins
mod piston 2 w/#54 and 2w/#56
35wt oil
4 hole from inside out
outside hole on arm
alu cnc shock stant off
alu cnc sway bar ball ends
alu cnc camber link ends
droop some less them the shock length(don't have a gauge yet)
arm level

Russ give this set up a try and tell me what you think in my first state race the pro guys lap time was 28~29 my lap times was 29~30 this car fills way more superior to the old H8 ask Rabid how my car look at qual. At the mains fell even better lots of steering have to take steering out on the radio to much.5,4,2 is the ticket for diff set up.



Last edited by Felipe on Mon Dec 24, 2007 8:23 am; edited 1 time in total
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Russjones42



Joined: 14 Nov 2005
Posts: 620
Location: camp verde az.

PostPosted: Thu Nov 01, 2007 4:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aron1 I have never ran bbf or spider diffs before, I am still a week away from having my Hyper 8.5, I used to have the original Hyper 8 and I plan on starting from there with my setup. I used to post very often in this thread and my base setup was very popular, the old car was not a set it and forget it car, so people usually ended up making changes to suit there driving style or track conditions.

If your front diff is leaking oil it will definately take away on power steering. I would refill your diff and then try the 20* caster block to get some more on power steering.

Felipe thanks for posting your setup, I know my starting set up will be very similar to that.
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rabidsquirrel



Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 1098
Location: Tampa, FL (New Tampa)

PostPosted: Fri Nov 02, 2007 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Russ,

Get that 'Team' ride of yours and ask the Race Program manager to pony up a set of BBF Tactyl II's for 'testing' and competition purposes...

JQ said that the improve dang near everything about the handling, especially on/off power turning (110 upfront would probably do it if one didn't want to shell out the cash for a whole set).

I'd like to see/hear from someone that's stateside and using them regularly on our tracks before I shell out $200 for a diff!

;=
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